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Course conditions, opinions and observations
By swiltse
#21260
Played Churchville today and glad to report the course is almost completely dry, unfortunately it seems to have reverted to the pre-Worlds layout.

I know Dave Thomas is the one who put in the baskets. Is he also the one responsible for choosing which layout to use? I'm not against changing the layout throughout the season, but it really seems to be a shame to not be able to use all the flypads and new hole configurations. Not to mention the confusion caused by having the course mislabeled and flypads that play to nowhere.

Dave: If you are in charge of the layout, can you please explain why you decided to forgo all the hardwork of the Rochester disc golf community and revert to the old layout for Churchville. If you're not in charge of the layout can you please give us the name and contact info for the person(s) that is telling you what to do, so we can voice our opinions regarding the layout of the course?

If this layout is only temporary and you're planning on changing to the Worlds layout sometime later in the season please let us know.

I've heard the reason for this layout is to make the course accessible to beginners, but if that's the case then it's a poor excuse for whatever your true motiviations are, as the Worlds layout is a vast improvement over the current layout with only a few holes that might be considered "inaccessible" to beginners. I'd be willing to bet that if you took a poll of everyone that's played both courses you wind find a vast majority prefer the Worlds layout.

PS: Churville is the first course I ever played on and is the one I did a lot of learning on. Even when I first started I would of preferred the Worlds layout to the old layout.
User avatar
By reksav
#21261
Dave will tell you to talk to someone at the Parks and Rec Dept. He will also tell you that he is not responsible for the layout changes, only that he gives his input and then does the actual install/moving of the baskets, but it is decided by someone else.
By Stairyo
#21273
Can someone confirm the definition of "Pre-Worlds Layout"? Are 1,2,17,18 on the East or West side of the road?
By Tony Inzana
#21279
1,2,17 and 18 are on the west side, all new holes when the course was redesigned for the worlds. Hole 16 is also new. The old configuration was 18 holes squeezed into the area of holes 3-15. Most of the front 9 holes were preserved, just modified slightly. The real difference was in the back 9 where the holes were all on top of each other which is now changed with the new configuration. We basically opened up the course, making it flow much better and better usage of the land.
By Stairyo
#21285
Sorry, Tony I should have been more clear. What I mean is are 1,2,17,18 currently on the East or West side. I'm okay with some of the old pin positions on the East side, but I would hope we would at least be keeping those four new holes intact.
By swiltse
#21286
Holes 1,2,17,18 are currently on the East side. The 4 new holes that were created on the West side of the road no longer have their pins in them. The course was reverted back to it's original, congested, pre-Worlds layout with all holes basically returning to their original configurations and all new holes no longer being used (even though they have flypads and sleeves available for use).

Apparently this was already discussed on another thread last August/September. Apparently no matter how much people voice their opinions for the Worlds layout to stay it is being overridden by the people in charge of the course. From what I've read in the other thread, the course was changed back because it needs to be "appropriate for THIS community with an eye towards making it playable for ALL". The thing that bothers me is there has been no real explanation given for why the original layout is more appropriate for the community and playable for all versus the Worlds layout. I think this lack of explanation and the fact that things get changed on what seems to one persons prerogative is the reason this is such a contentious subject.

You would think the people in charge of this course would want to take into consideration the disc golf communities opinion on a disc golf course in their community (who else in the community plays disc golf other than disc golfers?), but apparently the opinions left on this message board don't seem to weigh in the decision even though this is the main forum for disc golf discussion in Rochester.

Would they not take into consideration ball golfer opinions when they decide to change the Churchville ball golf course. Or would they change it based on the needs of the "community" and not take into consideration how it affects the golfers that use the course.
By chiefstang
#21288
Do you really think for one second that the town is versed in what is a beginner friendly course at all?

There is ONE person giving "the town" input, and moving the baskets according to "their" wishes.
By mujamike
#21289
chiefstang wrote:Do you really think for one second that the town is versed in what is a beginner friendly course at all?

There is ONE person giving "the town" input, and moving the baskets according to "their" wishes.

X2
User avatar
By rhand
#21290
Really disappointed to hear about this. I will have to contact the county. The layout for the worlds was 100% better than prior, backed by the PDGA (even for all skill levels)!

I'll let you know.

Ryan
By mjoe25
#21298
Im sorry but all of our hands are tied on this one its COMPLETELY up to the great and almighty "powers that be" and the town parks department has decided that they perfer to have a garbage course there. They don't want people to come and play there and they especially don't take kindly to people that can throw a disc over 200ft. You see we need a good mix of courses in the area. hard courses, easy courses, wooded courses, open courses, courses for dave thomas, courses with elevation, courses with par 4s and 5s, so we can all go play those other courses because what the disc golf community wants doesn't mean shit at churchville. what a snake to do that after the club spent thier time and money installing flypads there and pin sleeves there. so selfish.
User avatar
By walker
#21302
.....Maybe..... we can convince the county ......to start taking their "input" and "suggestions" from......... Ryan instead of Mr......... Thomas.

Speaking as a beginner, casual/recreational player, and all around non-world class player; I for one volunteered time and hard work (and money via club membership) at a course I would never consider playing at, so that it might transform into a course that was enjoyable for everybody. I know many many folks share that sentiment.

Ryan, I know you are planning on keeping Churchville in the course rotation for doubles league. Perhaps you should reconsider if we can't get the course back.
By lcra0825
#21305
I played the course today and couldn't quite figure out all the tees because the tee pads are still there from the previous course. I was wondering if someone was going to update the map of churchville on this website to make it easier to find the tees.
User avatar
By rhand
#21308
I have reached out the county and they are looking into why things were reinstalled the way they were. No need to finger point, it hasn't gotten us anywhere.

Anyway Walker to adress you...I will not use Churchville in doubles if the layout doesn't go back...not worth going out there. Hopefully we'll know soon.

We have no plans in updating the map either as our club doesn't support or promote this current layout.

The course going back to the pre-Worlds layout has nothing to do with skill level. Beginners could have played the Worlds layout and had a blast. Many have and it is just ridiculous that this has happened.

My appologizes to everyone that helped out there last year. Hopefully all of our hard work won't go to waste. Should know more tomorrow.

Thanks,

Ryan
By chiefstang
#21325
Ladies and gentlemen, Johnny Flash! Lol!

Honestly, that course has some great holes in the World's setup. It may not be a barn-burner at every tee, but it's got some great lines. I really hope the club can make it work.

One thing I've noticed in moving to Colorado is: They have way more courses than Rochester.... But there are so many places not worth stopping at.

EVERY course you guys have is a gem in it's own way. It's a matter of what you're in the mood for. You have tight(Basil), open(Chili), technical(Basil), Fun/beginner(Ellison), risk/reward(MCC), park course(Churchville), and yes, a pitch and putt(Sawyer).

Every course has it's place, let's hope Churchville can get past it's keeper and be what it deserves to be.




All you need now is an aggressive terrain course.....








...<Powdermill> 8)
User avatar
By walker
#21364
You forgot to mention the "has everything, high caliber" course, Parma. Everyone says Chili is open but I find more trees there....

Any update on Churchville?
User avatar
By BeauRoch
#21372
Ryan and I (and perhaps Tony) are meeting with the Monroe County Parks Dept. tomorrow to discuss Churchville specifically and the possible new course at Powder Mill Park.

Can somebody confirm if 1,2,17 and 18 were dug up and moved?

Would be nice to know this going into the meeting.

Thanks,
Gene
User avatar
By BeauRoch
#21373
Just been advised that the sleeves for 1,2, 17 and 18 are still there and have not been dug out.

Gene
By FishyMack
#21421
I just read this forum. I will remain calm. I helped install most of the new t-pads at Churchville last year, and I PERSONALLY re-installed/re-did ALL of the wooden signs. Shall I go move them all?
User avatar
By BeauRoch
#22564
Went to Churchville on Saturday to work on the new map. The map is done and has been posted along with the updated Google Map layout. I also updated the course page.

#15 (basket in the woods) now has two dead trees down near the opening that you throw into to reach the basket. Not sure why the Parks Dept. hasn't seen them by now and cleared them away.

Most of the number plates are up except for the last few holes where I had a hard time figuring out where the tee areas were.

If anybody would like to go there and perhaps get the number signs up where needed and perhaps even some arrows that would be a big help.

Gene
By Tony Inzana
#22568
Sorry to be such a negative, but why bother? Dave will do what he wants and change the layout whenever he wants. After all the work we did out there, especially the few that really helped. Can't say that I will EVER return to play that course again, unless it is to remove the flypads and the inside chains for the baskets that we paid for.
By Brownguy
#22621
The sad part is like Sawyer nobody goes there. if you are gonna go that far might as well travel 10 mins more and play Brockport.
By chiefstang
#22624
Tony Inzana wrote:...unless it is to remove the flypads and the inside chains for the baskets that we paid for.


I bet Mr. Thomas would be very upset if you did that. He would likely write you a letter full of periods and bold text telling you so. If ever a course needs Fly-pads, I hope you remember you have 18 rotting in a field.
By Tony Inzana
#22626
We do have 18 flypads in storage, along with 18 titan baskets... and plan to see them in use next year.... As for DT, I am not concerned about his feelings. We as a club will do what is right and necessary with the flypads, working in conjunction with Monroe County Parks and Rec. There are plenty of uses on our existing courses for those flypads.... just think about having several short tees where needed at the Chili and Parma courses... just to make those 2 beautiful courses more beginner friendly.... just a thought for all to ponder as they sit at the ruined Churchville course
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