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Ellison #16 Changes

Course conditions, opinions and observations

Ellison #16 Changes

Postby BeauRoch » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:29 pm

If anybody has seen to Ellison Park lately and played you have probably seen all of the work that the Monroe County Parks Dept. have done to that area this year and most recently in the last few weeks. They are transforming that area quite a bit and the fall out from it is that we had to re-design hole #16.

Ryan Hand and I were out there today to meet the Parks Dept. and figure out what can be done. We basically had to come up with a new strategy that could link #15 to #17 and stay off of the grass of those three tiers that we have been use to playing for many years. The new tee box placement (which will shift left) will force you to play to the left of the pines and away from all of the plantings.

The new hole will have a new tee box which will be closer to #8 basket (but not too close) and the new fairway will play straight-away into the far tree line and to the right about 150'. The new hole will probably play as a par-4 and much tougher than the current one.

The Parks Dept. will be doing a ton of clearing and some cutting to shape the fairway during the rest of this year. The new hole will debut next season when the baskets are put back in.

Also, the Parks Dept. will be leveling #13 tee pad which is sloped down now to make it safer to throw from under wet conditions.

This change was coming but at least we seem to have found a reasonable alternative.

As far as the rest of this year please be careful around the work that they have done and try to avoid damaging any of their new plantings.

Thanks,
Gene
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby yugo1223 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:23 am

I don't suppose you know exactly what they are building?
Glad to see 13# is being fixed since I found that tee to be very hard to throw off of.
Also it's a shame they are having us change the course.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby BeauRoch » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:40 am

They are restoring a lot of that natural stone work that was done and the structure that they built they hope will bring wedding parties for pictures or something they can rent for ceremonies.

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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Mudd Budd » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:09 pm

I always thought that area had potential for wedding pictures- I am glad that they are doing something with it--- as for another par 4, I am excited about that too!
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby mjoe25 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:25 am

went to ellison yesterday, 16 has been changed. this new hole seems really dangerous to me, on the tee you got 13 and 8 coming at you. when I drove I put my disc 10 feet from 7s basket and as you are playing on the side of the hill you got people from 7 driving and approaching down the hill right at you. The tee was moved b/c they didn't want people playing down on the original fair way but there is only one small branch in the way of a RHBH hyzer line that will end up being the shot, how long you think this branch will last cuz if it comes down it will defeat the whole purpose of changing the hole. this will end up being a blind shot that people will throw harder. accidental turn overs will be more dangerous to people down there and walkers on the path than the orginal hole.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby PL08 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:52 am

Agree with the Falcon as well. I actually really like the hole, great addition, but the entire time you are subject to getting hit. Not only do you have to worry about 13 and 8 but when you are walking up to your first shot, people on the tee may not see you so now you have to worry about what's behind you. Once again great hole and would love to see it work but don't know how without other hole changes.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby direwolf9 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:17 pm

I just played it, definitely danger from several angles on that hole. Seems like dense bushes need to be put in on the edge of 7's green to protect 16's fairway. Don't know that much will be able to be done to protect the tee from 13 and 8.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby illuminatefreak » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Just played this new setup for the first time this morning. I don't personally have the arm to go throwing into #7's basket, and I don't see it being that "dangerous" for #8. Perhaps a runaway disc on #13 could pose a problem, but nothing a good "FORE" can't solve. I usually play at sunrise (6:45 this morning) so traffic on the course is pretty much zero at that time, so my perspective is probably not shared.

As far as the hole itself, I liked it. Not as much as the original setup (which was one of the signature holes of the course in my opinion), but I can see it becoming an enjoyable hole as it gets used and worn in a bit.

Thanks to those who spend their time and energy to work through these things. As much as it probably killed you to have to change it at all, I'm thankful for the time you invest on things like this. You're much appreciated!
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby renoob » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:26 am

I registered just to post this, and I'm glad some others already have. I was there this morning, and I have to say I'm very nervous about this hole. If someone gets seriously hurt it's possible the course will be pulled. I personally will probably skip it during peak hours--it's just not worth it. There are tons of players who are good enough to hit the 7th and 8th pins off their respective tees, and there are even more players bad enough to hit the new 16th tee from 13. I'm in both of those categories fwiw.

If it has to be changed (ugh) then the only safe option I see would be to move the tee a little closer to 15 and possibly back further from the cliff, and put the pin somewhere along the NW corner of the top terrace.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Forehander » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:18 pm

My biggest gripe about this hole is that you are required to walk along a steep, debris filled side of a hill for the majority of the hole with no sort of pathway to follow. I can see rolled ankles and poison ivy in our futures. Not to mention everyone now walks down the eroded part of the cliff next to 8's basket which is hastening the erosion. At the rate it's been eroding the last couple years we will probably have to relocate 8's basket next year for that reason regardless.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby rhand » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:00 pm

All good comments and I agree with all of you.

My #1 option would to have left the hole exactly as it was (they finally cleaned it up so you could see all the stone walls, ect...and it was fun.

We were basically told that we had to move the hole, that included the tee and the basket as they didn't want us anywhere on the tiers anymore.

So we really didn't have a lot of options. I tried to get something down by the stream, but they felt that would interview with where the horses go. I don't know of any other real room on the existing course that would have left us with a good hole. I showed the parks what would need to be cleared and unfortunately they did much more than asked. I agree that there has to be something done on the back of 7's green to provide protection. There is more clearing to be done and the proposal for a walking path on the middle of the hill slope. The parks crew said that they will continue to brush hog the area and with the amount of foot traffic I think the hole with establish itself. Is this the best, no, not even close. Again I wish we could have kept what we had, but we weren't given that option. If anyone has some other idea, let me know.

Thanks,

Ryan
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby sjc1434 » Tue Oct 1, 2013 12:06 pm

What about a hole just across the walking path just parallel to 15? Heck, what about a championship course down near the softball fields in the rest of ellison? Maybe im just a dreamer...but i'm not the only one :D
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby walker » Tue Oct 1, 2013 1:04 pm

sjc1434 wrote:What about a hole just across the walking path just parallel to 15?


I tried to get something down by the stream, but they felt that would interfere with where the horses go.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby gostt » Tue Oct 1, 2013 1:40 pm

I haven't played the course so I'm not exactly where the pad is for #16 but what if you did a bit of backtracking from the #15 basket and placed a tee in there for a shorter wooded hole and the basket near the old #16 tee? It would be safer although you'd have a long walk to #17.

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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Doug Corea » Wed Oct 2, 2013 11:47 am

Does the park really need us off all the levels? If we could use the top level and make the others OB, we could use the existing tee and make the hole a blind hyzer that would have a steeply sloping green. The drive would be towards 7, but stop well short. I know this isn't a par 4, but we don't have the room, and you would have roll aways. Just a thought.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby PL08 » Wed Oct 2, 2013 8:00 pm

I REALLY like Dougs Idea!!! Sloping greens are fun!
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby reksav » Thu Oct 3, 2013 1:31 am

We have to stay off all tiers completely. No fly overs either.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby gostt » Thu Oct 3, 2013 9:22 am

The way it's setup now, I feel like some people will end up in the general area where the old basket was. A bad shot that goes a little too far right could end up down there pretty easily.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby sjc1434 » Fri Oct 4, 2013 9:20 am

What about a hole that is just off the left side of 17's fairway in between 4 and 17? You could also redirect the holes on the southeast corner as well to fit another hole in there. Just some thoughts.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby FastEddie502 » Mon Oct 7, 2013 5:58 pm

already rolled my ankle and slipped down the steep part full of mulch near the basket when trying to get my disc. luckily i am a young ninja and can take the fall, but someone older who enjoys the game and probably plays much better than me will get hurt and be decommissioned to work and provide for their family. the hole has potential though.
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby jack_moran3 » Mon Oct 7, 2013 11:06 pm

I have to agree with the mulch. if this hole becomes a permanent part of the course then I would love to see a better constructed green area. The current mulch pile is treacherous and is already falling down the steep slope. The basket footing seems to be pretty loose as well. I enjoy the hole and it has serious potential, but there are some slight changes that would make it even better!
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Forehander » Tue Oct 8, 2013 4:17 pm

It's such a shame that they took away part of a historic course that hundreds of people enjoy every day just so that they could try and make some measly extra cash by renting it out. I don't know who would even want to have their wedding in the middle of Ellison park right between the dog walking path and the disc golf course....

But, i do want to commend those of you who were quick to come up with and implement this replacement hole. You guys are doing the best you can with what you have, thanks!
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby zephead » Wed Oct 9, 2013 4:52 pm

Yeah, played today and that hole is not safe for the ankles and also erosion of the hill as others have stated. I am curious how they will charge to rent the area for weddings / photos and such. Isn't it a free county park?
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby ELItheICEman » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:12 pm

I think there's potential for everyone to be happy with the outcome of moving #16. I was playing a quick round after work last night and accidentally placed my upshot about ten feet from the new #16 basket. Likewise, my second throw on #16 ended up by the basket of #7.

The thought dawned on me - what if we swapped the two basket locations? #7 would still be a long downhill shot, but not as easy to birdie for those with bigger arms; and #16 would be less perilous to traverse, and probably a little more likable for all.

Thoughts?
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby rhand » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:25 pm

The issue is that too much was cleared between 7 and what is 16's fairway. They have to add some protection (large dirt mounds, arbs, ect...) to define and separate the green/fairway.

Steps are planned to be constructed coming off of the 16th tee. and a easier walkway to traverse the hill side.

This hole was put in way before it should have been.

How about everyone relaxes, let the hole play out and see what we are left with. If it truly sucks we can change it.

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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Mudd Budd » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:28 pm

I played on Sunday and parked 16's basket from7's tee and all I thought when i saw where I landed was "What if someone was putting out on 16? Ouch!"

For the time being, we just need to be super careful around that whole corner--- I am sure that a new solution for losing 16 will be a topic in the upcoming club meeting on the 6th-

looks like Ryan posted an answer while I was typing this
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby Doug Corea » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Played this hole on Monday 11/11 w/Dog, Mr. Crowley and Joseph (Good thing there was not a Wedding party up on the top level, where the Dog's good drive ended up, who knows?)

First problem is the tee (sight line issue) is aiming at the 7th green and proximity to #8's basket.

Second problem is the steeply, sloping hill which I my drive landed on, it is quite treacherous.

Third issue is lack of a true fairway, it is more of a luck way.

Since only doubles and not weekend events (where a slight chance, if any, of someone visiting the top tier) occur at Ellison.

I propose using a tee (a gap exists), just before the old tee, by just throwing down a couple of flags (for doubles) and playing over the flat upper tier ( I know, no fly overs, who is to know?) .

This new fairway would be improved greatly by simply removing a few saplings on the slope before the green.

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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby PL08 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:37 pm

I really liked the new course design that was brought to the club meeting. The course would not only flow better but would be safer. No worrying on 8's tpad on throws off of 7 and then no new 16 mishaps. Can anyone post it for others who missed the meeting to see?
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Re: Ellison #16 Changes

Postby zog9605 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:12 am

I second that motion. Jamie Moldt's new layout looked pretty sweet. I think the current 16th hole is "not good". If the club paid for new course maps to accompany the changes, I would think the park dept would be ok with a change that avoids their new photo area even more. Jamie's new layout was really niiiice. And because the fly pads are more or less portable the fix isn't that difficult. ...I am actually excited to play it as soon as we can.
Go Big or Stay Home....its disc golf for cripes sake!
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